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	<title>Comments for ARESST</title>
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	<description>Victoria Sewage Issue News &#38; Opinions</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:01:23 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Esquimalt to get sole sewage plant by Elliot Russell</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=612&#038;cpage=1#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=612#comment-263</guid>
		<description>water conservation should be done because we are already having some water shortage these days`**</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>water conservation should be done because we are already having some water shortage these days`**</p>
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		<title>Comment on Esquimalt councillors &#8216;appalled&#8217; by sewage-plant plan by freddy beamer</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=606&#038;cpage=1#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>freddy beamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=606#comment-142</guid>
		<description>Is it time for torches and pitchforks, or maybe tar and feathers?  Perhaps a demonstration of the displeasure of the residents of Esquimalt should follow the example of the Run-of-River project on the Pitt River.  In March 2008, an angry mob headed by Rafe Mair gathered to oppose the Pitt River Hydro Project.  Environment Minister Barry Penner, who was a booster of the project,  promptly wet himself and summarily cancelled the whole thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it time for torches and pitchforks, or maybe tar and feathers?  Perhaps a demonstration of the displeasure of the residents of Esquimalt should follow the example of the Run-of-River project on the Pitt River.  In March 2008, an angry mob headed by Rafe Mair gathered to oppose the Pitt River Hydro Project.  Environment Minister Barry Penner, who was a booster of the project,  promptly wet himself and summarily cancelled the whole thing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Esquimalt councillors &#8216;appalled&#8217; by sewage-plant plan by Elizabeth Woodworth</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=606&#038;cpage=1#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Woodworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=606#comment-140</guid>
		<description>It is certainly understandable that Esquimalt would be very concerned about this sudden and unexpected turn of events.  Such a large decision requires careful and orderly study.  Once again, decisions are being made to meet artificial deadlines which are exerting the perception of time pressure, when in fact there is no hurry at all.  It really seems as if this project might implode altogether.  That would be good.  Then, in the fullness of time, rational and unhurried plans can be made, with full public participation, that will serve everyone involved in the best possible way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is certainly understandable that Esquimalt would be very concerned about this sudden and unexpected turn of events.  Such a large decision requires careful and orderly study.  Once again, decisions are being made to meet artificial deadlines which are exerting the perception of time pressure, when in fact there is no hurry at all.  It really seems as if this project might implode altogether.  That would be good.  Then, in the fullness of time, rational and unhurried plans can be made, with full public participation, that will serve everyone involved in the best possible way.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Esquimalt councillors &#8216;appalled&#8217; by sewage-plant plan by Loves Esquimalt</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=606&#038;cpage=1#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Loves Esquimalt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 12:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=606#comment-139</guid>
		<description>Esquimalt neighbourhoods near this unnecessary billion-dollar sewage plant will be at risk from the sludge trucks, from the toxic sewage treatment chemicals stored onsite, and will most likely get occasional odour problems. 

However, they won&#039;t be the only ones to suffer, as McLoughlin Point is right at the mouth of Victoria Harbour - so if you don&#039;t like mega-marinas, you&#039;ll find that the ecologically-sensitive foreshore at the Point also an environmental negative. 

Too many environmental negatives when there is NO sound environmental reason for additional, land-based sewage treatment.

Mayor Desjardins appears to have publicly taken a critical view of some of the CRD CALWMC process, but problem is that she doesn&#039;t oppose the unnecessary land-based sewage treatment project itself - just quibbles over the siting.

Neither does STAG/Bellefontaine appear to challenge the very weak rationale for this wasteful, environmentally-hazardous sewage treatment plant project, but her focus is just on the resource recovery aspects and siting.

Tim Morrison, writing in the blog Esquimalt Review, has two current articles, one of which features Bellefontaine:
esquimaltreview.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/crd%E2%80%99s-stinky-decision-making-on-sewage-treatment/

and the other article by Beth Burton-Krahn:

esquimaltreview.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/crd%E2%80%99s-sewage-treatment-plan-should-be-flushed-down-the-toilet/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Esquimalt neighbourhoods near this unnecessary billion-dollar sewage plant will be at risk from the sludge trucks, from the toxic sewage treatment chemicals stored onsite, and will most likely get occasional odour problems. </p>
<p>However, they won&#8217;t be the only ones to suffer, as McLoughlin Point is right at the mouth of Victoria Harbour &#8211; so if you don&#8217;t like mega-marinas, you&#8217;ll find that the ecologically-sensitive foreshore at the Point also an environmental negative. </p>
<p>Too many environmental negatives when there is NO sound environmental reason for additional, land-based sewage treatment.</p>
<p>Mayor Desjardins appears to have publicly taken a critical view of some of the CRD CALWMC process, but problem is that she doesn&#8217;t oppose the unnecessary land-based sewage treatment project itself &#8211; just quibbles over the siting.</p>
<p>Neither does STAG/Bellefontaine appear to challenge the very weak rationale for this wasteful, environmentally-hazardous sewage treatment plant project, but her focus is just on the resource recovery aspects and siting.</p>
<p>Tim Morrison, writing in the blog Esquimalt Review, has two current articles, one of which features Bellefontaine:<br />
esquimaltreview.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/crd%E2%80%99s-stinky-decision-making-on-sewage-treatment/</p>
<p>and the other article by Beth Burton-Krahn:</p>
<p>esquimaltreview.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/crd%E2%80%99s-sewage-treatment-plan-should-be-flushed-down-the-toilet/</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sewage choices can&#8217;t be rushed by Alex Murdoch</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=590&#038;cpage=1#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Murdoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=590#comment-127</guid>
		<description>I agree with every point made in this commentary, but nevertheless wish to commend the CRD’s Liquid Waste Management Committee [CALWMC] for having the courage to change a bad plan at this late date.   Once a plan has been announced, millions spent on studies and land acquisition, and a PR campaign mounted to sell it to the public, it must be extremely difficult for politicians of any stripe to say “we were wrong – there’s a better way.”  Good for you, CALWMC!

 

But now, more than ever, the Committee needs time to get it right.  From its inception in 2006 most of this project’s problems have resulted from hasty decisions, often driven by the impossibly short deadlines imposed by BC’s Environment Minister.  How many times over the past four years have CALWMC members been quoted as saying, in effect:  “I don’t like the plan in its present form but we have to meet a deadline so I’ll hold my nose and vote for it.”

 

Repeated studies, and the independently-monitored reports of the CRD’s own Science staff, have shown that the existing system poses no immediate threat to public health or the environment, and the argument for land-based treatment has always been that as our population grows “we can’t do this forever.”  The Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, in the Canada-Wide Strategy document signed in 2009, suggests a 30-year time frame as appropriate for such situations.  And postponement of a $750 million expenditure, in the present economic climate, could not be a bad thing.  Surely Mr. Penner can give the CRD a year or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with every point made in this commentary, but nevertheless wish to commend the CRD’s Liquid Waste Management Committee [CALWMC] for having the courage to change a bad plan at this late date.   Once a plan has been announced, millions spent on studies and land acquisition, and a PR campaign mounted to sell it to the public, it must be extremely difficult for politicians of any stripe to say “we were wrong – there’s a better way.”  Good for you, CALWMC!</p>
<p>But now, more than ever, the Committee needs time to get it right.  From its inception in 2006 most of this project’s problems have resulted from hasty decisions, often driven by the impossibly short deadlines imposed by BC’s Environment Minister.  How many times over the past four years have CALWMC members been quoted as saying, in effect:  “I don’t like the plan in its present form but we have to meet a deadline so I’ll hold my nose and vote for it.”</p>
<p>Repeated studies, and the independently-monitored reports of the CRD’s own Science staff, have shown that the existing system poses no immediate threat to public health or the environment, and the argument for land-based treatment has always been that as our population grows “we can’t do this forever.”  The Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, in the Canada-Wide Strategy document signed in 2009, suggests a 30-year time frame as appropriate for such situations.  And postponement of a $750 million expenditure, in the present economic climate, could not be a bad thing.  Surely Mr. Penner can give the CRD a year or two.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Feds still onside with funding CRD sewage by Alex Murdoch</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=561&#038;cpage=1#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Murdoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=561#comment-120</guid>
		<description>I hope Stockwell Day has asked his staff to conduct a proper analysis of the “Business Case” submitted in support of the requested $308 million in federal funding, as it is so absurd as to be laughable.   According to the plan the proposed treatment plants will generate over 10,000 permanent jobs, suck CO2 from the atmosphere, generate vast revenues, and make our American neighbours love us.  It promises benefits such as heat and water recovery which the CRD’s very-expensive consultants have already told them are impractical.  While reading it I kept expecting a claim that it would end the Palestinian conflict, eliminate HIV/AIDS, and issue in a new ere of world peace and prosperity!  The scary thing is that some on the CRD board appear to actually believe this nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope Stockwell Day has asked his staff to conduct a proper analysis of the “Business Case” submitted in support of the requested $308 million in federal funding, as it is so absurd as to be laughable.   According to the plan the proposed treatment plants will generate over 10,000 permanent jobs, suck CO2 from the atmosphere, generate vast revenues, and make our American neighbours love us.  It promises benefits such as heat and water recovery which the CRD’s very-expensive consultants have already told them are impractical.  While reading it I kept expecting a claim that it would end the Palestinian conflict, eliminate HIV/AIDS, and issue in a new ere of world peace and prosperity!  The scary thing is that some on the CRD board appear to actually believe this nonsense.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Anderson doubts commitment of governments to sewage plan by Bob Furber</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=510&#038;cpage=1#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Furber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 16:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=510#comment-82</guid>
		<description>I would love to see the scientific studies referred to by Mr. Penner. They simply do not exist. At best he has misinterpreted a couple of reports that his aide has read.

If Mr. Penner is referring to the MacDonald Report, this report simply brings to light contamination of the ocean floor surrounding the Macaulay sewage outfall. But it fails to link this contamination to sewage. It merely recommends further studies. Moreover, this report makes no mention that this area used to be used as Victoria&#039;s garbage and nuisance dump before the Hartland landfill was brought on stream. Amongst the many nuisance items dumped there were car radiators and batteries, both rich in lead and other heavy metals. There are also reports of a sunken coal barge near the outfall. The fact that ocean bed contamination is DECREASING around the outfalls further weakens the link between ocean bed contamination and sewage.

Or, perhaps Mr. Penner is referring to a curious paragraph in the SETAC report: “Relying on the dilution and natural dispersion ...is not a long-term answer to wastewater disposal...also contribute contaminant loads to the Strait and to Puget Sound ”. This is unfortunate because there is evidence this paragraph was added after the fact, given that it has zero support in the body of the report and its absurd claim that Victoria&#039;s effluent will [travel up stream] to the contaminate the Puget Sound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to see the scientific studies referred to by Mr. Penner. They simply do not exist. At best he has misinterpreted a couple of reports that his aide has read.</p>
<p>If Mr. Penner is referring to the MacDonald Report, this report simply brings to light contamination of the ocean floor surrounding the Macaulay sewage outfall. But it fails to link this contamination to sewage. It merely recommends further studies. Moreover, this report makes no mention that this area used to be used as Victoria&#8217;s garbage and nuisance dump before the Hartland landfill was brought on stream. Amongst the many nuisance items dumped there were car radiators and batteries, both rich in lead and other heavy metals. There are also reports of a sunken coal barge near the outfall. The fact that ocean bed contamination is DECREASING around the outfalls further weakens the link between ocean bed contamination and sewage.</p>
<p>Or, perhaps Mr. Penner is referring to a curious paragraph in the SETAC report: “Relying on the dilution and natural dispersion &#8230;is not a long-term answer to wastewater disposal&#8230;also contribute contaminant loads to the Strait and to Puget Sound ”. This is unfortunate because there is evidence this paragraph was added after the fact, given that it has zero support in the body of the report and its absurd claim that Victoria&#8217;s effluent will [travel up stream] to the contaminate the Puget Sound.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Anderson doubts commitment of governments to sewage plan by John Newcomb</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=510&#038;cpage=1#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>John Newcomb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 23:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=510#comment-81</guid>
		<description>Right Alex! I sent email to the reporters on that story with correction. Of course, the irony is that Rob Shaw was the chief sewage reporter for the Times Colonist until he got bored with it ;-)

My email to Kim and Rob:

Hey Kim and Rob:

I think Rob has been away from the &quot;sewage file&quot; for too long!

&quot;Sewage here goes through a six-millimetre screen before being shot via 100-metre-long pipes into the Strait of Juan de Fuca&quot;

...and the correct answer from Times Colonist files:

&quot;The Macaulay Point outfall pipe in Esquimalt travels 1.8 kilometres away from shore and sits 60 metres below the surface. The Clover Point pipe is 1.2 kilometres long, and 65 metres deep.

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/features/sewage/story.html?id=6944f801-be05-424b-939d-ea7896c00f59

Grateful you include correction in upcoming newspaper? I&#039;m sure our RSTV members will also be sending you lots of emails about this! Its really a serious issue, when the greatest threat to our marine environment isn&#039;t from our LONG outfalls, but from the storm drains that are so short.

John Newcomb
aresst.ca
rstv.ca
victoriasewagetreatment.ca/ccost/
sites.google.com/site/sewageplantsvictoria/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right Alex! I sent email to the reporters on that story with correction. Of course, the irony is that Rob Shaw was the chief sewage reporter for the Times Colonist until he got bored with it <img src='http://aresst.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>My email to Kim and Rob:</p>
<p>Hey Kim and Rob:</p>
<p>I think Rob has been away from the &#8220;sewage file&#8221; for too long!</p>
<p>&#8220;Sewage here goes through a six-millimetre screen before being shot via 100-metre-long pipes into the Strait of Juan de Fuca&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;and the correct answer from Times Colonist files:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Macaulay Point outfall pipe in Esquimalt travels 1.8 kilometres away from shore and sits 60 metres below the surface. The Clover Point pipe is 1.2 kilometres long, and 65 metres deep.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/features/sewage/story.html?id=6944f801-be05-424b-939d-ea7896c00f59" rel="nofollow">http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/features/sewage/story.html?id=6944f801-be05-424b-939d-ea7896c00f59</a></p>
<p>Grateful you include correction in upcoming newspaper? I&#8217;m sure our RSTV members will also be sending you lots of emails about this! Its really a serious issue, when the greatest threat to our marine environment isn&#8217;t from our LONG outfalls, but from the storm drains that are so short.</p>
<p>John Newcomb<br />
aresst.ca<br />
rstv.ca<br />
victoriasewagetreatment.ca/ccost/<br />
sites.google.com/site/sewageplantsvictoria/</p>
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		<title>Comment on Anderson doubts commitment of governments to sewage plan by Alex Murdoch</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=510&#038;cpage=1#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Murdoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 21:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=510#comment-80</guid>
		<description>The reporters fail to metion that David Anderson is not just a &quot;former MP&quot; but Canada&#039;s longest-serving Environment Minister.  He has followed this issue for decades and, while not a scientist, must be accounted a pretty knowledgeable source.

I note also the reference to &quot;100-metre-long pipes&quot; into the Strait.  In fact the pipes are about a mile in length and end in diffusers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reporters fail to metion that David Anderson is not just a &#8220;former MP&#8221; but Canada&#8217;s longest-serving Environment Minister.  He has followed this issue for decades and, while not a scientist, must be accounted a pretty knowledgeable source.</p>
<p>I note also the reference to &#8220;100-metre-long pipes&#8221; into the Strait.  In fact the pipes are about a mile in length and end in diffusers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science-based decisions don&#8217;t include sewage plan by Elizabeth Woodworth</title>
		<link>http://aresst.ca/?p=453&#038;cpage=1#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Woodworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 02:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aresst.ca/?p=453#comment-62</guid>
		<description>Dear Ms. Savoie:

In response to your comment above, I offer the following objections:

1. It is not good enough to quote the BC Minister of Environment, who in turn quotes nameless federal scientists, to conclude that Victoria and Montreal are the worst offenders with regard to sewage disposal. The receiving environments of the two cities are vastly different, for one thing, and we would need to see figures that demonstrate that Victoria&#039;s current system performance is in violation of the forthcoming federal regulations, now gazetted.

2. If Victoria is found to be in violation of these forthcoming regulations, the first question to be asked should be, &quot;Is it possible to modify the existing system to meet the new regulations, as opposed to assuming that land-based sewage treatments is the only solution.&quot;  Before committing to the billion dollar, high-carbon footprint that will be created by a completely new system, there should be an open scientific debate on the advisability of proceeding, calling in public health officials and marine scientists who are charged with making recommendations.  Then the public should vote on the recommendations.

3. The question of who pays for this new system -- the need for which has not been scientifically supported -- Federal or Provincial or local funds, is a red herring  based on fear mongering.  The first thing to do is to establish which treatment would most cost-effectively meet the new federal standards, and THEN pursue a fair and just cost-sharing agreement for whatever level of modification may be needed.  If the federal and provincial governments cannot pay their share, then it&#039;s obvious a new system has low priority for them.  They can&#039;t BOTH mandate it, and NOT pay for it!

We obviously should not be rushing headlong into an enormously costly system because of funding fears.

I too will not support the NDP in future if it caves in to this kind of bullying.

Let&#039;s put the cart squarely behind the horse where it belongs!

Yours sincerely,

Elizabeth Woodworth
Victoria, BC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Ms. Savoie:</p>
<p>In response to your comment above, I offer the following objections:</p>
<p>1. It is not good enough to quote the BC Minister of Environment, who in turn quotes nameless federal scientists, to conclude that Victoria and Montreal are the worst offenders with regard to sewage disposal. The receiving environments of the two cities are vastly different, for one thing, and we would need to see figures that demonstrate that Victoria&#8217;s current system performance is in violation of the forthcoming federal regulations, now gazetted.</p>
<p>2. If Victoria is found to be in violation of these forthcoming regulations, the first question to be asked should be, &#8220;Is it possible to modify the existing system to meet the new regulations, as opposed to assuming that land-based sewage treatments is the only solution.&#8221;  Before committing to the billion dollar, high-carbon footprint that will be created by a completely new system, there should be an open scientific debate on the advisability of proceeding, calling in public health officials and marine scientists who are charged with making recommendations.  Then the public should vote on the recommendations.</p>
<p>3. The question of who pays for this new system &#8212; the need for which has not been scientifically supported &#8212; Federal or Provincial or local funds, is a red herring  based on fear mongering.  The first thing to do is to establish which treatment would most cost-effectively meet the new federal standards, and THEN pursue a fair and just cost-sharing agreement for whatever level of modification may be needed.  If the federal and provincial governments cannot pay their share, then it&#8217;s obvious a new system has low priority for them.  They can&#8217;t BOTH mandate it, and NOT pay for it!</p>
<p>We obviously should not be rushing headlong into an enormously costly system because of funding fears.</p>
<p>I too will not support the NDP in future if it caves in to this kind of bullying.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s put the cart squarely behind the horse where it belongs!</p>
<p>Yours sincerely,</p>
<p>Elizabeth Woodworth<br />
Victoria, BC</p>
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